School Districts Say the Darndest Things

It never ceases to amaze me the things that school personnel say at meetings, that parents relate to me, or testify to at hearings, Here are few a choice ones. I will supplement this list as I recall more and I invite readers to post their "darndest statements" in the comments:

• I am a PhD. I do not have to explain anything to you;

• You are a parent you would not understand this report any way;

• Your child is intentionally sleeping and snoring in school (even though they could not rouse him);

• We [the school district] did not pay for the AAC device for 4 years because we were waiting for insurance approval from an administrator who bragged at hearing that he had expertise in insurance matters;

• Your child has "no reading issues in 3rd grade" even though he was still at the pre-primer level and had few decoding skills;

• What do mean by "adverse effects" from a veteran special education teacher when asked at hearing why goals were not developed;

• A totally nonverbal child in 8th grade was able to "get her point across" even though no one including the SLP could understand her one handed sign, and she had no other reliable means of communication;

• At an IEP meeting where all of the school people had the evaluation reports but the parents did not; "those reports are none of your business."

• We could not provide you with the reports before the meeting because the word processors were all broken; curiously stated at every meeting held at a large educational coop;

• A superintendent in written memo instructed his staff prior to an IEP meeting to address serious elopement issues "under no circumstances are you to provide a bus aide for this child."

• In the same case as above involving the child with serious elopement risks, the superintendent bragged at hearing that he specifically refused to authorize the purchase of "good walkie-talkies like we provide to the janitorial staff" justifying the fact that staff did not have the means of supervising the child off premises, and the child nearly died as a result.

It is not just the glare of the moment that allows this statements to dribble out. In some instances, it is arrogance and a practice that is observed by some IEP teams and in some schools (not all) that parents are there to sign their names and get out of the way.

Comments

Thanks for the information you put in your blog. I read it once a week. I am currently in litigation with my school. Now in US district court.

[Sherry Hollis]

1. (district special ed director) Your child doesn't qualify to have this initial eval done because she's not in special ed and not covered by IDEA.
In other words, he's saying 'your child has to ALREADY be in special ed in order to see if she can QUALIFY to be in special ed.

2.Why would you want your child to live at home? The children WANT to live here as residential for socialization. (Blind Academy)

3.Your childs behaviors are causing their learning problems.

4.All children who live out of our district HAVE to live here because they have no transportation provided for them (Blind Academy)

5.You have to provide transportation yourself. We will reimburse you for taking child to school, but not for coming back home. (Blind Academy)

6.We decided for your child to be residential because all other children living in your district are residential here.
(Blind Academy)

7.(district sped director) A screening is the same as an initial evaluation.

8.Our 'early intervention program' is not to help child with their specific problems, it's only to help them pass the state tests.

9.We can't test every child, we don't have enough funds to serve them all.

10. Our SST dept. has found that your child doesn't qualify to have sped eval done, and you can not request it to be done.

11. Teacher- I'm so sorry, the administrators just would not let me help your child.

12.With your childs low grades and test scores, you can't expect her to do any better.

I gotta million of em...

[Kathryn]

It's unbelievable isn't it, what otherwise seemingly normal looking people will say? Is it something in the coffee in the school staff lounge? Sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone in similar meetings where they say similar things. It's just plain gross at other times.

Here are some choice ones:
The school psychologist just finished her incredibly inadaquate eval of my daughters abilities in order to assess her for placement in the mainstream preschool. She hefts her bag of tricks over her shoulder and then says this to me in my own house,"Hmph! Well, I can see that she is a lot of work!"

This was her response to my showing her how Ellie and I do pretend play with her Maisy doll, "Well, I can see that her life is just like one big video game."

Do you smell the preconceived notions getting in the way of any meaningful evaluation here?

Here is her response to my telling her and having Ellie demonstrate that at 3 years of age she knew her entire alphabet, colors and shapes, "None of that is important. She needs to learn pretend play." Because knowing real things is bad? God help us all!

[Laura Allen]

1- I,a school person,do not need to evaluate.I know what I am doing.I don't need to and in fact there is no evaluation.

2-The parents have been problematic from the start(testimony from district administrator) Then when asked to recall some incidents that bolstered his testimony,suprisingly(not)he couldn't think of any.

Off topic---Glad you're back,I was wondering--wonderful news!!All our best!!!

[Sherry Hollis]

To Kathryn, I have read on some support boards that parents have in fact found books that 'teach' schools how to say and do all this crap. There is one on amazon.com, but can't remember the name of it.
Someone even told me that they have attended 'seminars' in which they learn these things.
I'm a member of LOTS of boards, groups, etc and it's the same all across the whole country. It just makes me sick.
The thing that I hate the most is that WE are paying THEM to do this!!

To Laura Allen,
It's funny how at first she stated the 'video game' comment about your pretend play.

And then, turned around and said the pretend play is what's most important!

Thank GOD for homeschool!
I wish some kind of school personnel would read this blog, though it would do no good for change.

Did you know that you can request to the person who did the eval to pay for another eval to be done by a dr. YOU choose? This eval will be more complete and will then be used to see what services your child needs. If you need help with this, email me at sisymay@yahoo.com

''Do you smell the preconceived notions getting in the way of any meaningful evaluation here?''

Yep, they start out doing these things to lay a foundation to make sure they have no 'proof' an eval is needed.
But it doesn't matter what they do or say, they HAVE to do an eval when
1.a parent requests it in writing
2.THEY (school) themselves are suppose to actively 'find' and evaluate all kids suspected of having disabilities to see if they qualify for special ed services.
I have NEVER heard of a school doing this, and it is violating federal special ed laws.
Not that they are going to get in trouble for it though.
There is NO ONE to enforce schools to follow the laws, so they never do.
The kids suffer tremendously the rest of their lives at the hands of the very people we are suppose to trust to take care of them.

[Kathryn]

Hi Sherry,

Great post and comment. I have heard in Massachusetts when parents sue the school because of these very issues - improper evals or non existent ones or bad IEPs, placements, etc. the parents mostly win and the school does not want the state to get involved and getting a closer look at their little fifedomes.

I have been under the impression that if you go through the pain of getting a lawyer, at least in MA, especially when the school is so obviously in the wrong, that you will get some justice. Also, document, document, document - dates, times, incidents, verbatim what is said, etc. So are you saying that this is not true? Just wondering if this is a state level issue where it varies a lot by state or a national one. Would love your thoughts on this. Thanks,
Kathryn

[Sherry Hollis]

I have heard that most times when parents and schools are in court, the schools often win.
And even if the parents do win and the school is ordered to follow laws and do right, they will still not do it.

I am not sure if ALL cases are like this, but I have heard of this lots of times from the sites I'm a member of.

There is just no enforcement for schools to do right, and they know this.

''Just wondering if this is a state level issue where it varies a lot by state or a national one.''

Do you mean cases won by parents or schools, or do mean the level of corruption in schools?

If it's about corruption, This is rampant across the country regardless of what state it is.

[Charles Fox]

I do not believe that schools win more in court and often win less as the court is more apt to follow the law that some hearing officers, in my opinion. Problems with enforcement are throughout the country and frankly one of the single biggest issues.

[Kathryn]

Hi Sherry and Charles,

I meant the parents winning court cases over the schools. It really is obvious if you read a bit how rampant the corruption is in most schools when it comes to dealing with disability. We saw a huge issue with enforcement as well. The school would say, sure we'll do this. And then they literally only provided 0 - 10 percent of what they said they would do. They seem to bank on the fact that a parent of a disabled kid will tire before they will of the fight - you know- because we get our buts kicked every day by the fatigue of total care and the worry and stress of fighting for our child's rights. It's sick isn't it? What I want to know is at what point did the school folk lose their humanity and become so currupt and callous?

I still think that in MA parents win most of the time - but you are right the school can just be lame about enforcement...

Sigh.

Great site - glad you are hear.

[Billie]

Hi. I just found this blog after following a link from Kathryn's page.

I am the parent of twins with special needs, as well as a school psychologist. I am trying to do the best I can possibly do in both roles.

Being a parent is hands down the harder job, but being the school psych is hard too. I hate the politics and hoops we have to jump through in trying to get kids the best services we can. Personally, I find working with parents a hundred times easier than dealing with (some) teachers.

Anyway, my quote of the week, at an IEP meeting for a severely language impaired first grade student who (IMO) needs additional resource room services (he gets speech only for 20-30 minutes 2-3 times a week)..."If he can't pay attention in a group of 20, he's not going to pay attention in a group of 5."

Said so eloquently by a special education resource room teacher. She had the parents convinced (though maybe not in so many words) that he needed to see a doc for ADHD meds before he could get additional services.

Anyway, I am encouraged to find your blog and will be referring other parents here for information. I have been working in my position for 6 years, and still don't know everything about the law that I need to know to advocate strongly for my own children, and the children I work with. I am committed to learning more!

[Sherry Hollis]

Hi Billie, sometimes I ask teachers and other school personnel on boards, groups, etc. what do they think about how schools in general are so corrupt when it comes to special ed?
I never got an answer.
I have heard that some school people quit the system for this reason.

I have also found that many times, teachers and others in schools don't know the special ed laws, don't know the procedures that are suppose to be followed, so they don't know that the administrators are blatantly violating the laws and hurting the very children that we (the taxpayers) pay them to care for.

And, I've also learned that even if the teachers do know what's going on, they keep their mouth shut and do what they are told, they have to keep their jobs.

Even though most teachers are not the ones who are hurting the children, I really feel for them because they got into teaching to help children, and they have their hands tied and have to end up hurting the children.

You wrote--She had the parents convinced (though maybe not in so many words) that he needed to see a doc for ADHD meds before he could get additional services.

This is illegal. There is a federal law called 'child medication safety act of 2000 (or 2003)
this law was made for this reason. Schools are not suppose to talk about meds at all.
Most parents dont' know about the sped laws either, so they get sucked into the lies, they trust the schools, and don't know that their child CAN be helped, and the schools are blatantly lying to parents.

[J.Raddatz]

As a "school person" who has witnessed many comments at the IEP table that are regrettable, I have a thought to share.
For every one obnoxious or insensitive "school person" -I know of five other truly dedicated advocates doing the best they can with the meager support they get from their federal and state sources.
While this does not excuse IEP nightmares, it does motivate me to write our legislators (again and again) on the behalf of special needs children and their families. I hope you will do the same.

[Charles Fox]

J, Raddatz: I applaud you and all of the dedicated sped and gened professionals who are working their bottoms off in a professional and courteous manner and I realize that on the same token some parents say the darndest (hurtful and unwarranted) things.

I have and will take your suggestion to heart. Keep up your quality efforts.

[Sherry Hollis]

To J.Raddatz,
I too want to thank you for your stand on this. I know some school people are really wanting to help.
For instance, my childs 2nd grade teacher did a lot of things to care and help my child. She knew what her problems were and never said she was lazy, not trying, etc. She told the truth and said she had different learning problems. She didn't try to cover them up. She called me a lot to inform me of my childs problems and worked on ways to help.

But, at the time I asked school for an eval to see if my child could qualify for special ed, everything stopped. She started writing sarcastic notes on my childs work 'not paying attention' 'refused to finish work', and on and on. She even wrote right on her report card 'some of the grades do not reflect actual performance because she got angry and refused to do the work'

I wrote back on it in a place they could not cut off- she is not doing her work because she CAN"T, not because she WON"T. She has learning problems as you have previously stated to me'.

After many attempts of trying to talk to her about my child, I finally wrote a letter to principal and stated this avoidance is preventing me to effectively advocate for my child which is a violation of IDEA law. The teacher immediately called me and said 'I don't know why I never contacted you. I guess I thought you could read my mind'.
She never contacted me again.
After more fighting on their part, I pulled out to homeschool.When I told teacher this she said 'I'm sorry, the administrators just would not let me help your child'.
I told her I knew that they were making her do all this and I had no hard feelings against her, and that I was greatful for her helping my child until her hands were tied. I told her I knew what was going on.

[Annie]

I really appreciate this website. I know someone who dtr was suspended for 180 days for a fight that happeded in front of her house after school. The fight happened on a Friday, the assist principal called me (not the parent) and said he did not want the child back at school monday, because he was suspending her for 180 days. He told me to relay the message to the child's mother who was at work, "She is not allowed on school property anymore and will be trespassing if her mother brings her back to the school. He will follow up with the mother later by phone." Well this child is a resource student, and we believe that her rights may have been violated. The other child was not susupended and is presently going back to school. Also, she is suspended from 1/22/07 to 1/22/08, isn't that 366 days, plus the fight happened a week before that I believe and she has not been back to school, neither has there been any meetings at this point. Please advise. The child attends a school within the Shelby County Schools District located in Memphis.

[Sherry Hollis]

Wow Annie, the fight was not even at school??
the school should have not been involved.
I wish I knew exactly what to tell you.

I would like to recommend a great site for help, it's www.schwablearning.org and you sign up for free to post on the parent to parent message board.

Have the parents tried to do anything? I would be going to the school board, bring this up in school board meetings, tell the newspaper, etc....

The schwab board will help a lot!!

[Matt]

I'm sorry to you parents who have had bad experiences in the schools. I am a speech pathologist who chose to take a pay cut to work in the schools instead of the medical setting. I am regretting the decision every day lately. I have a huge caseload, am buried in paperwork, and frankly wonder if I care more for some of my students than their own parents do (I spend more time and money on school supplies for some kids than their families).

The icing on the cake is that as I was researching an issue on assistive technology, I came across this blog. While I don't dispute some of the incompetent people some of you may have run into, I take offense to you stooping to such low levels to make blanket statements about all of us. How does this help your child?

[Rose]

I am a special education teacher. I love my job and my students. I dedicate myself to my calling and honestly try to do everything in my power to guide my students towards the greatest possible outcomes they can achieve. I work hard to walk in the shoes of each of the parents of my students and can't understand why that isn't mutual.

Yes, there are some teachers, administrators and professionals who are burned out and should have moved on years ago. Yes, money is frequently the bottom line when it shouldn't be. Turning that into an anti-teacher, anti-special education attitude only increases this so-called rift between parents and teachers.

I am a taxpayer, too, don't forget. I am mandated by law to be "highly qualified" meaning I have $70,000 in school loans for my M.S.Ed. that I must have to stay certified in special education, yet I make that same money as someone with an associates degree in a technology field. I make less than my plumber does.

I never think about it though, because I GET to TEACH. I get to go into that room every day and change the world.

Lincoln said that a house divided against itself cannot stand. In education the house is parents and teachers all working to create wonderful lives for students. Divided we cannot do this.

Blogs like this spur the division.

[Charles Fox]

Rose: this blog is not directed at you or any other dedicated teacher. However, these anecdotes are all true and reveal a deep well of discontent. Unity is certainly something to strive for but at the same time it is important to affirm the reality of the parents' experience.

Charlie Fox

[Sue Keller]

"To Kathryn, I have read on some support boards that parents have in fact found books that 'teach' schools how to say and do all this crap. There is one on amazon.com, but can't remember the name of it.
Someone even told me that they have attended 'seminars' in which they learn these things.
I'm a member of LOTS of boards, groups, etc and it's the same all across the whole country. It just makes me sick." quoted from Sherry Hollis, Jan. 30, 2007

I am intrigued by the book and seminar comments. Because if you can substantiate it, it certainly confirms my intuition.

I once wrote to our local superintendent of schools that a good lawyer could put together an anti-trust suit against school districts for illegally denying FAPE and related services. I suggested to him that since every school district was denying students in the same way, only proof of collusion was needed - and then I asked him if the national education conventions provided opportunities to learn how to deny students appropriate services (with the goal of cost containment). Not surprisingly, I never heard back. All we need is one education professional whose conscience is bothering her/him to become "Deep Throat" and go all the way.

The goal of such a court case is not the dismantling of the public school system nor is it to hit public schools with monetary fines. What I would like to see as a result of an anti-trust suit is true enforcement of IDEA; not continuation of this nonsensical, Alice in Wonderland, parallel universe in which we live, in which it is perfectly OK to discriminate against people with disabilities by hiding behind so-called ignorance of the law, on the part of teachers and administrators.

Let's make it a criminal offense for schools to refuse appropriate education and services. We would suddenly see a dramatic rise in compliance. Since the loss of one's job and one's pension seems to loom large in many teachers/administrators minds and keeps them from openly advocating for their students, perhaps the prospect of jail would be a larger incentive to do the right thing!

Let's also make it a criminal offense for the federal gov't not to fully fund the mandated 40% of local special education budgets.

Third, and this is radical, I would like to see reparations paid to all the children cheated over the years, who are now adults and whose lives were, and continue to be, materially affected by this state-sanctioned (by that I mean, nation state) discrimination and negligence.

My apologies to all the good teachers & therapists & administrators out there. This is not directed at you. May your numbers increase!

[Sue Keller]

Just wanted to add a brief postscript to my comment above.

To all the good teachers, therapists, and administrators: I have had only one teacher openly break ranks and truly advocate in my child's best interest in an IEP meeting.

If you aren't doing that very same thing for every single student you have, that is called a sin of omission. It pretty much negates all the good stuff you may be doing otherwise.

If you aren't actively and openly on the side of civil rights for kids and adults with disabilities, can you really consider yourself a good teacher/ therapist/ administrator?

[withheld to protect the guilty]

I have heard many surprising things over time.

From a principal, unchallenged by a special ed supervisor sitting in the same meeting, "It's unfortunate, but the state won't allow us to put anything measureable in the IEP goals."

From a principal, pre NCLB, "I don't get any points for saving a child like your son--I have all these other regular ed kids that I will be judged on."

From a principal on why my son's LD resource room had been change to "cross-categorical," "I had to get rid of a unit and that was my bargaining chip. I told them (downtown) that I would take a cross-categorial unit."

From a regular ed teacher on an "inclusion" class he taught, "It went really well--I didn't even know which kids had IEPs"

From a principal at a Manifestation Determination hearing where all of the teachers in attendance had just shared that they had not been using the daily check lists that were the only behavioral intervention on the IEP, and the facilitator was polling the group as to whether this meant that the district had failed to implement the IEP, "I disagree."

From the bus driver who drove to the special needs school--and left my son alone at an empty house when the babysitter who was supposed to meet the bus wasn't there as arranged--"these kids don't have disabilities, they're just bad kids."

On the bright side--a wonderful regular ed teacher who pulled me aside prior to our first IEP meeting to suggest some positive behavioral goals, "otherwise, they are going to want to just focus on the negatives."

Another good one from a high level special ed administrator on hearing that my son was uncooperative in his new placement--preferring to read books over what the class was doing, "We ought to be able to handle that--we are a school, after all!"

[ellen]

Annie- Don't know if you will see this regarding the child suspended for over a year. This was a special ed student? They cannot suspend for more than 10 days without a manifestation determination meeting. There are specific provisions under section 1415 of IDEA 2004 that specify what must happen when a child who has an IEP or who might qualify for an IEP. This is blatant violation of IDEA 2004. Why did they contact you-- ?

[MaryAnn]

Here is a great one to add to your list. Spoken by a Special Education Supervisor,
"You as a parent and teacher should understand that there will be bright kids in every class and dumb kids in every class". This was on the heels of a discussion on whether or not to place our child in a "regular" class, or a special ed class.
Disgusting!

[David Cockrell]

Our School district was bracing for a due process hearing after an untrained shadow elected to tell my child that he could not eat lunch. This lead to my son leaving school grounds and nearly getting hit by a car. He was taken to the E.R. by ambulance.

We requsted to see my son's records including his discipline report. We were puzzled to find that on the first day of school there were "other offenses". We asked why this was there.

The School District's Attorney and the Director of Special Services explained really slowly so I would understand. "Other offenses" is a "Code" used by the middle school that indicates that your child is on an "IEP". This code as since been discontinued and here is a copy of your son's records. Rather than create a new code or use the three letter acronym, the middle school suddenly does not consider it to be a disciplinary offense to be on an IEP. Little did I know that this would become one of the more believable stories.